Controversey Of Vampires As Predators

[Sfinelli3]

Thread split from "Vampire Declarations: Samples and Comments"
http://www.atlantavampirealliance.com/forum/index.php?topic=491.0



Yes, I don't believe we are predators.  We are merely people trying to thrive.

[GraVes]

I can't agree with the predator line. Yes I feed on blood but I do so only with someone who is willing and volunteers.

[razorblade_recon]

with the exception of Elecktras post......OMG Im gonna puke...If I say any more than that its going to be very abrasive and very rude so I just wont go there......and on the next topic Ill probably get banned but thats ok (not from here), lets see, how to put it in a nice way......Ill tell you the facts mixed with my opinion......(cause I wasted the $55.00) TOV is an eliete group of......"fill in blank", the book that I purchased (mandatory to become a member) is vague at best, if you go to their website its just as vague (my personal opinion on both, not to be confused with fact)........I asked some questions on the members forum as I am one, and the answers I got (out of 18 posts) EXCEPT 1 were the kind of answers that you get from a lawyer who doesnt want to give you a straight answer. If you decide to become an active member to have access to more than just the "beginner" forums (which is a crock in itself) its $10.00 and there are 4 or 5 more books like the first at varying prices. (all of this is my own personal opinion, not to be confused with fact, I have not broken my agreement to "not talk about inner working of the temple", but I may get banned or booted for my less than prasing post here on some backwards technicality, no matter. If TOV works for you then have at it, it has been my experience that I paid $55.00 for a book that talked in riddles and "borrowed" concepts from things waaaay before its time and some not so far back. If youre a member of TOV and this post offends you, I truly am sorry, and dont bother finding me here or other places to send me nasty messages or IM's because truly I will find it amusing. this is not to be disrespectful I just see it now as a conversation piece on my coffee table with a kick ass red logo on the front.

[sphynxcatvp]

...We can't just go around saying we're predators.  We simply aren't....

Yes we are. Most of us have just learned to be civil and work WITHIN society instead of against it. Having predatorial instincts doesn't mean we're always antisocial psychotic crazies.

[DarkeGarde]

Good afternoon honoured members,
In part I agree with Eclecta's statement that "...We can't just go around saying we're predators." That is part of the reason I wrote the "Vampyre Declaration of Independence". If we did go around saying "Hay y'all, check me, I'm a stone-cold predator"  the ramifications could be quite unpleasant but to say that vampyres aren't predators is like saying the sky is not blue, or, the sun doesn't rise everyday.

SphynxCat is absolutely correct on this one, we are predators. One of the most basic precepts of vampyrism is predatory intent, whether we admit it or not... we are hunters by nature. If we don't have a ready supply of what we need we go out and find it, and consume it. Like a lion that is hungry will go and find a deer to eat, or an eagle will swoop down on a rabbit.

Vampyres are predators, make no mistake. It's natural.
With compliments,
H

[WingedWolfPsion]

I found that more than a bit melodramatic, and you might be more convincing in your claims of harmlessness if you dropped the declaration of predatory behavior. lol

[DarkeGarde]

I found that more than a bit melodramatic, and you might be more convincing in your claims of harmlessness if you dropped the declaration of predatory behavior. lol

Apologies dear lady,
Perhaps I could have been a little less colorful in drawing the analogies. The fact remains I can't drop the "declaration" of predatory behaviour.
I am a vampyre, therefore, I am a predator. To me that is as complete a truism as we are ever likely to find.
With compliments and respects,
H

[WingedWolfPsion]

That's cool, but...I am a human, and I'm a predator.  I'm a therian, and I'm a predator.  Of course you are a predator, but you are not a predator upon humans, not unless you're looking for jail time.  You can't imply you prey on humans in one breath, and in another claim you're harmless.  Doesn't work.

It is UNNECESSARY to proclaim that you're a predator.  So is everyone else, so who cares?  If you feel the need to proclaim, people are naturally going to assume that you're acting on those instincts, and preying on people.  Why shouldn't they make that assumption?  You were so quick to point it out, after all.

On top of that...melodrama, it helps no one.  It only makes the person who is being melodramatic look like they take themselves far too seriously, and are trying too hard to impress others.  We don't need that kind of thing, it just feeds into all of the stereotypes.

[DarkeGarde]

AyraGrace wrote:
“Vampires do exist.We live.We breathe.What are we but creatures of the night.Predators on the human race.We are nothing like our Hollywood or literary brethren.We have been around since the begin of mankind.I can not tell you how many of us there are only that we exist.It is not a life I would choose but what vampire has a choice.We are simple creatures living only to feed and to co-exist with mankind but have no fear we will not harm you.It is not exceptable to harm a human in today's vampire world.We follow rules societies rules. our lives are rules by instinct.We are a misunderstood creature.We are what we are and we do exist.”

Winged Wolf Psion wrote:
"...but you are not a predator upon humans, not unless you're looking for jail time.  You can't imply you prey on humans in one breath, and in another claim you're harmless.  Doesn't work.
   It is UNNECESSARY to proclaim that you're a predator.  So is everyone else, so who cares?  If you feel the need to proclaim, people are naturally going to assume that you're acting on those instincts, and preying on people.  Why shouldn't they make that assumption?  You were so quick to point it out, after all.
   On top of that...melodrama, it helps no one.  It only makes the person who is being melodramatic look like they take themselves far too seriously, and are trying too hard to impress others.  We don't need that kind of thing, it just feeds into all of the stereotypes.”

My thanks for your observations my dear WW,
I find it intriguing that you assume I am not a predator upon humans. Where do you base that assumption? Do you know how and where I get the energy I need to be well and feel whole? Have you been with me when I've been doing it?

Do you know for certain that I hurt people when I "feed"... or that I don't hurt anyone? Naturally, any time the word predator is used people who have little or no understanding of the context; or come in on the tail of the conversation, are going to make associations with the word that are unfavourable; it's just a word that describes characteristics, not necessarily motives.

In your opinion the statement/s are/were melodramatic... I say we are speaking truthfully. Our truth, in our words, in our own time and that is what any such "declaration" is all about. People will use those words they have chosen to express what they want to express, their perception of themselves and how they relate to the world in general or the vampyre communities in. For me, my written "declaration" are the basic precepts that define how I conduct myself given that I am a vampyre; and damn proud of the fact, with due regard and respect for others around me. You might well call them my "10 Commandments for being a Vampyre" - not anyone else's (unless they choose to adopt them) just mine.

In a nutshell, I am afraid that I have no choice but to disagree with your charges of "melodrama"... speaking truthfully about how one feels is not melodramatic in my opinion, it's called honesty.
With compliments,
H

 

[WingedWolfPsion]

(I didn't know you were Hawkmoor, lol)
You are the only one I would accept that from.  From anyone else, it IS melodrama. lol

If you are not harming someone, then you are not preying on them.  It's just that simple.  You can't change the definition of predation just because you feel like a predator. 

[DarkeGarde]

  Well, and now you know my dear. The Hawkmoor you know and love only plays in his own house now... out here he realised that there is real work to be done.

In response to your statement, "If you are not harming someone, then you are not preying on them"
I beg to differ, as you probably knew I would.

Let me give an example.
I am a psi. When I get really hungry (worn down, lethargic, weary) I go to a shopping mall or some other crowded place. I compose myself in a particular way (stalk) I move in to where the source of energy is (the hunting ground) I reach out with my senses and my 'energies' (talons and jaws in metaphysical form) and I snatch the energies away from the people in the place... without their knowledge or consent (seize the prey and feed off it)

My need is my "hunger" for the energy that I lack. The prey are the people in the place. The act is the seizing of their energies "life-force" and the devouring of it, to feed myself energy.

Have I not just fulfilled all the prerequisites that a predator fulfills every time they hunt and feed?
With compliments,
H

[WingedWolfPsion]

And if someone notices you, then they will suffer some psychological discomfort, which is harm.  Which would make you a predator, and which would make you NOT harmless.  *sighs*

[Oblivionburns]

Well, I like the statement.  But I am predatory & territorial, and argumentative & will never deny my true nature.  I calls 'em as I sees 'em.
Aren't we all individuals, worthy of respect?  Failing that, perhaps just worthy of consideration?  Everything all of you have said has given me more to think about.  I will be the first to admit that I take what I need from willing participants or feed on such a broad scale that it harms no one.  But I'm not afraid to use the abilities I've been born with to defend myself or those I love.  This is never a big deal, because the attacker will just feel weak in the knees & suddenly won't remember what they were intending to do.  It may not be necessary to announce one's predatory tendencies, but it doesn't hurt to warn people, either.  They should have a clear understanding of what they are involving themselves with.  It's only fair.

[hexmoon3]

DarkeGarde I find it highly disrespectful that you would go to such lengths as to prey on other people. If you are hungry ambient energy will suffice unless you have a willing donor. I think what you are doing in unethical. We are not predators. When we get low we get cranky and sick, and then as being the human beings we are we find a way to feed. We do not steal energy from people. And I certainly hope that if you do not listen to me you are not draining them dry and you are not feeding on people who are not fully mature or on sick people...but wait...you have no way of knowing any of that since you did not ask. As for me I try to find donors with an over abundance of energy that they do not use and constantly burn themselves out with. If I cannot find one like this I make due with someone who is healthy and developed enough that me feeding will not affect their growth. I feel very sad that we seem to have fallen into an age of no morality and where if someone is polite they are looked down on as being a snob. Politeness is always key. As a human we should be polite to everyone especially those who give us their energy.

[paindancer]

Still find the whole declaration thing to be a bit silly.

Independence from what?  Nation, country, species?

You are not a separate species.  You are not a separate race. 

And to tell truth, feeding in a mall on the unaware, just opens you up to finding out exactly what a real predator can be.  You become fair game at that point.  May want to keep that in mind the next time you start bottom feeding.